Layering Armor

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Layering Armor

Postby Flagg » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:26 am

In the books, characters are described as wearing multiple layers of armor, such as "mail over boiled leather". This isn't represented directly in the rules, with the exception of brigandine, which is underlayed with mail. Is wearing multiple armors permitted, and if so how do they stack?
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby camerandy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:59 am

We did this in a recent game and found that it was too over powered even with just leather and ring. There was no way for the enemy to even scratch the AR so in the end we ditched the idea.

To make it work you could deduct some points from the bottom amour to balance it out, given that the top layer of amour would take most of the damage.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby Zorbeltuss » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:10 am

Eh, there's nothing wrong with buying, say, brigandine, use the stats and costs, and call it something else.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby Eisen » Fri Nov 09, 2012 9:55 am

Mechanicly it's a no go, but if you read the armor discriptions some of them do use layers of other armor, be it cloth, leather, or chain that forms part of the suit.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby Flagg » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:03 am

camerandy wrote:There was no way for the enemy to even scratch the AR so in the end we ditched the idea.


What kind of AR are we talking about here? I'd expect the combined AP to do some pretty brutal things to the Combat Defense.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby camerandy » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:09 pm

I had leather and ring mail armor and also the armor master perk, as far as I can recall, and it dropped my AP down something rotten. Though this was sometime ago and I dont have the books/character sheet at hand to fully validate this. So take my words with a pinch of salt.

In the end we found it was too over powered in the defense mechanically to be fair and thus removed one bit of armor from my character.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby Pytorb » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:46 pm

Flagg wrote:In the books, characters are described as wearing multiple layers of armor, such as "mail over boiled leather". This isn't represented directly in the rules, with the exception of brigandine, which is underlayed with mail. Is wearing multiple armors permitted, and if so how do they stack?


This is a random thought but one thing you could do is add the Bulk penalties for the two armours together and use the rest of the stats for the armour with the highest AP whilst at the same time allow the armour to discount one level of Shattering or Piercing. That way there is a penalty for wearing two layers of armour and the benefit isn't a direct increase in protection for the wearer but in armour resilience.
Last edited by Pytorb on Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby shonuff » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:15 pm

I've always assumed that the armor type isn't necessarily the only component. Some plates will come with chain or leather, for example.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby Flagg » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:43 pm

shonuff wrote:I've always assumed that the armor type isn't necessarily the only component. Some plates will come with chain or leather, for example.


Most of the metal armors in the book come with what is essentially a gambeson - a padded cloth jacket. These provide minimal protection, and are really just to make the armor more comfortable to wear. The only ones that specifically come with another layer of armor underneath are brigandine and half plate, and presumably they would have a gambeson underneath as well.

I like the suggestion of using the stats for brigandine to represent mail over leather and calling that close enough.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby Kajani » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:24 am

Personally I think there speaks nothing against the combination of armor, but I would say it should never be better than the types which already exist. The AP/AR/Bulk should remain more or less as the already existing types, but if anyone want that his char wars another typ for optical or similar reasons - why not? It seems so as if the Campaign Guide did exactly that with that "Plate and Mail" several people wear...
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby BrianD » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:12 am

I've always just decided that certain armors are included in the cost of other armors with absolutely no stacking. Full plate armor, for example, includes mail, breastplate, and padded armor. The player owns all such armors of lesser AR by virtue of owning the highest AR armor and can choose to don what is most appropriate as the circumstances dictate.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby Flagg » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:00 am

That works great for plate, but what about mail? Is that mail over hard leather? soft leather? padded doublet?
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby shonuff » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:52 pm

Typically, isn't mail sewn to leather?
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby BrianD » Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:15 pm

Flagg wrote:That works great for plate, but what about mail? Is that mail over hard leather? soft leather? padded doublet?

Any of them, it doesn't really matter all that much since they won't stack with the mail and they're all even as far as the the AR/AP balance goes. I go with padded as the default.

Generally speaking, I'd say:

Full Plate includes Breastplate, Mail, and Padded
Half Plate includes Breastplate, Mail and Padded
Brigandine includes Mail and Padded
Splint includes Padded
Scale/Coin includes no other armor
Breastplate includes Padded
Mail includes Leather (Hard or Soft) or Padded
Hides includes Leather (Soft)
Ring includes Padded
Bone or Wood includes Leather (Soft) or Padded
Leather (Hard) includes no other armor
Leather (Soft) includes no other armor
Padded includes no other armor
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby Legate » Sat Nov 10, 2012 10:27 pm

BrianD wrote:
Flagg wrote:That works great for plate, but what about mail? Is that mail over hard leather? soft leather? padded doublet?

Any of them, it doesn't really matter all that much since they won't stack with the mail and they're all even as far as the the AR/AP balance goes. I go with padded as the default.

Generally speaking, I'd say:

Full Plate includes Breastplate, Mail, and Padded
Half Plate includes Breastplate, Mail and Padded
Brigandine includes Mail and Padded
Splint includes Padded
Scale/Coin includes no other armor
Breastplate includes Padded
Mail includes Leather (Hard or Soft) or Padded
Hides includes Leather (Soft)
Ring includes Padded
Bone or Wood includes Leather (Soft) or Padded
Leather (Hard) includes no other armor
Leather (Soft) includes no other armor
Padded includes no other armor



Historically, I believe that is completely correct.
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Re: Layering Armor

Postby Paedrig » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:25 am

[quote="shonuff"]Typically, isn't mail sewn to leather?[/quote]

As far as i know - not. At least the "normal" mail armor is i. m. o. mail OVER some sort of padded clothing set.
Of course the "Retainer" example in the Core Rule book wears exactly such kind of armor which you mentioned (in this case this should be a ring armor i think). And in reality there were also (although contested) theories of such armor of rings sewn to leather.
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