Where are the Rules for Blood Magic?

Discuss our dark fantasy adventure tabletop roleplaying game based on BioWare's computer game, Dragon Age Origins.

Where are the Rules for Blood Magic?

Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:28 am

My character in the PC game used both blood magic and the path of blood from the DLC, but Blood Magic isnt in the RPG nor is demon summoning, Are we going to get rules for this? as blood magic is a Power you can take as player in the PC game.

Does anyone have any rules for blood magic?
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Clarification

Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:02 am

To be clear both myself as a GM and another member of our group as a GM were going to run a game based around apostates and blood magic. Blood Magic was going to be a option for players as well as somthing to face in the intrigue of the Empire. However we cant find any rules for blood magic and we are also new to RPG's (it was stated this game was aimed at people like us) and this game is our first RPG and while we are new we did expect a product that covered the salient points of the game world (we did not expect everything as we are aware this is a tiered release) but it seems to us blood magic is like pretty much all other magic in that you can use it from a low level (as in the apprentice mage who was a blood mage in the first level of the Chantry or how you can learn blood magic very early on in the PC game).

As such we are (as a group) a little dissapoined and not sure what to do from here, we as a group had worked out together our first RPG game ever and what we wanted to play but been v.new to all this we are not at all confident or willing atm to make up rules so we are looking to see if the game developers would prehaps release rules for demons/blood magic/demon summoning/paths of blood as a PDF (for sale or free we dont care. We would pay for it if you need us too) we are unsure of the work needed to this but it seems to us Blood Magic should have been in the main rules (?).

Thank you for your time
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Postby areola » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:19 am

Hello there. Congrats on taking up this hobby :green:

I havent played the game myself but based on the wiki, it seems that Blood magic is a higher specialization no? I don't think a PC of level 1-5 can take it up in the VG am I right? I think Set 2 will feature them, so in the mean time, why not explore what your mages were up to before they took up this demonic magic? It would be interesting..
Last edited by areola on Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ClassDunce » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:20 am

I imagine that Blood Magic will be a specialty class that'll be released in the an upcoming box set. There's really no reason to have it in this release since even in the game you couldn't be a blood mage until Level 7 at least.

I'm pretty sure it'll be there but if you want to go ahead and get started then I don't see a reason why you guys can't start a game full of normal mages and foucs on entropy magic and the more destructive primal spells, that where you would've started anyway. Build your characters up to where their characters can become bloodmages in the future.
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Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:22 am

Perhaps this is a mistake on our part, we assumed that one could learn Blood Magic in you were taught when you were first inducted into Magical Training, Remember that empire taht was founded on blood magic? Which is why we assumed there would be lower level tiered spells I guess.

Hope that explains our POV, so you saying that blood magic is essentially too advanced for levels 1-5 and as such will be a later release? I do hope there are not any issues with completing the product cycle.
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Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:22 am

ClassDunce wrote:I imagine that Blood Magic will be a specialty class that'll be released in the an upcoming box set. There's really no reason to have it in this release since even in the game you couldn't be a blood mage until Level 7 at least.

I'm pretty sure it'll be there but if you want to go ahead and get started then I don't see a reason why you guys can't start a game full of normal mages and foucs on entropy magic and the more destructive primal spells, that where you would've started anyway. Build your characters up to where their characters can become bloodmages in the future.


This does sound quiet reasonble.
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Postby Bill » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:22 am

If I had to guess, Blood Magic rules will be in boxed set #2, and characters will have to be level 7 or greater to learn blood magic.

My advice is to take it slow, run a game with characters that are young/novices and have the blood magic and demon summoning be a theme of the background that the players do not directly confront at first.

This is not a good time to be running a dragon age game where characters level quickly. The 2nd boxed set might be 6 months away.

Take your time, learn the game system. have fun with very low level charcters. When the 2nd set arrives, it will probably have all you need for the bloodmagic plot.
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Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:24 am

Bill wrote:If I had to guess, Blood Magic rules will be in boxed set #2, and characters will have to be level 7 or greater to learn blood magic.

My advice is to take it slow, run a game with characters that are young/novices and have the blood magic and demon summoning be a theme of the background that the players do not directly confront at first.

This is not a good time to be running a dragon age game where characters level quickly. The 2nd boxed set might be 6 months away.

Take your time, learn the game system. have fun with very low level charcters. When the 2nd set arrives, it will probably have all you need for the bloodmagic plot.


Ah oK thank you for the information, the advice is sound thank you, but may I ask why would the release be so long? 6 months seems a very long time (but I have no experience with RPG release time schedules)
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Postby areola » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:25 am

It is safe to assume that the later set level 6-10 would feature the specializations of each classes, with blood mage being one of them hence with blood magic spells and rules.
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Postby ClassDunce » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:25 am

Blood Magic is actually banned from being taught in the Circle, they wouldn't train anyone in it because the Chantry would freak. If you remember the reason that guy (spoiler so I won't name) had to run away from the Circle was becuase he had been studying Blood Magic.

Having a character who practices Blood Magic would be a major complication and make it alot more difficult for them to move freely throughout Fereldin if it's known that they're a Blood Mage.
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Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:26 am

ClassDunce wrote:Blood Magic is actually banned from being taught in the Circle, they wouldn't train anyone in it because the Chantry would freak. If you remember the reason that guy (spoiler so I won't name) had to run away from the Circle was becuase he had been studying Blood Magic.

Having a character who practices Blood Magic would be a major complication and make it alot more difficult for them to move freely throughout Fereldin if it's known that they're a Blood Mage.


Yes we are aware of this thus the group would be apostates as mentioned in my post above (I think :) )
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Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:27 am

areola wrote:It is safe to assume that the later set level 6-10 would feature the specializations of each classes, with blood mage being one of them hence with blood magic spells and rules.


yes that does sound very logical to me. Here's hoping it comes out far quicker then 6 months :)
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Postby areola » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:31 am

Abhoth wrote:
areola wrote:It is safe to assume that the later set level 6-10 would feature the specializations of each classes, with blood mage being one of them hence with blood magic spells and rules.


yes that does sound very logical to me. Here's hoping it comes out far quicker then 6 months :)


Same here. Post your gameplay report. Would love to read about the adventures you and your friends make.
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Postby Bill » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:33 am

Abhoth wrote:
Bill wrote:If I had to guess, Blood Magic rules will be in boxed set #2, and characters will have to be level 7 or greater to learn blood magic.

My advice is to take it slow, run a game with characters that are young/novices and have the blood magic and demon summoning be a theme of the background that the players do not directly confront at first.

This is not a good time to be running a dragon age game where characters level quickly. The 2nd boxed set might be 6 months away.

Take your time, learn the game system. have fun with very low level characters. When the 2nd set arrives, it will probably have all you need for the bloodmagic plot.




Ah oK thank you for the information, the advice is sound thank you, but may I ask why would the release be so long? 6 months seems a very long time (but I have no experience with RPG release time schedules)


I actually design and publish pen and paper rpgs. (really! I am not making this up. I can't tell you my company or game names because I assume I am not allowed to post that here. And yes, I know anyone can claim anything on the internet:)

So I would guess that a release schedule allows them to put more time and effort and care into each release.
As someone new to that business, I know I have trouble getting everything done on schedule. Its a ton of work to make a game.
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Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:38 am

areola wrote:
Abhoth wrote:
areola wrote:It is safe to assume that the later set level 6-10 would feature the specializations of each classes, with blood mage being one of them hence with blood magic spells and rules.


yes that does sound very logical to me. Here's hoping it comes out far quicker then 6 months :)


Same here. Post your gameplay report. Would love to read about the adventures you and your friends make.


I shall then, the basic setting is a remnant of the old empire that employed blood magic, this empire shard (really just a small city now on the edge of the map) still has a few secret sects with tech magic of a very dark nature. The players will be Apprentices in one of these sects, one then that Im not sure on how to handle is the Fade and how to handle tests of a system nature in the fade. Do you mental stats replace your physical stats or ?
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Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:40 am

Bill wrote:
Abhoth wrote:
Bill wrote:If I had to guess, Blood Magic rules will be in boxed set #2, and characters will have to be level 7 or greater to learn blood magic.

My advice is to take it slow, run a game with characters that are young/novices and have the blood magic and demon summoning be a theme of the background that the players do not directly confront at first.

This is not a good time to be running a dragon age game where characters level quickly. The 2nd boxed set might be 6 months away.

Take your time, learn the game system. have fun with very low level characters. When the 2nd set arrives, it will probably have all you need for the bloodmagic plot.






Ah oK thank you for the information, the advice is sound thank you, but may I ask why would the release be so long? 6 months seems a very long time (but I have no experience with RPG release time schedules)


I actually design and publish pen and paper rpgs. (really! I am not making this up. I can't tell you my company or game names because I assume I am not allowed to post that here. And yes, I know anyone can claim anything on the internet:)

So I would guess that a release schedule allows them to put more time and effort and care into each release.
As someone new to that business, I know I have trouble getting everything done on schedule. Its a ton of work to make a game.


I imagine it is, I have done a PhD thesis before so I do understand the hassle that goes into any pieace of writing, revisions, fact checking, more revisions and so on. I guess I was thinking that they would be working on things con-currently so that when first box set is done, things are setup and going for the next one and so on.
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Postby Bill » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:04 am

Abhoth wrote:
Bill wrote:
Abhoth wrote:
Bill wrote:If I had to guess, Blood Magic rules will be in boxed set #2, and characters will have to be level 7 or greater to learn blood magic.

My advice is to take it slow, run a game with characters that are young/novices and have the blood magic and demon summoning be a theme of the background that the players do not directly confront at first.

This is not a good time to be running a dragon age game where characters level quickly. The 2nd boxed set might be 6 months away.

Take your time, learn the game system. have fun with very low level characters. When the 2nd set arrives, it will probably have all you need for the bloodmagic plot.






Ah oK thank you for the information, the advice is sound thank you, but may I ask why would the release be so long? 6 months seems a very long time (but I have no experience with RPG release time schedules)


I actually design and publish pen and paper rpgs. (really! I am not making this up. I can't tell you my company or game names because I assume I am not allowed to post that here. And yes, I know anyone can claim anything on the internet:)

So I would guess that a release schedule allows them to put more time and effort and care into each release.
As someone new to that business, I know I have trouble getting everything done on schedule. Its a ton of work to make a game.


I imagine it is, I have done a PhD thesis before so I do understand the hassle that goes into any pieace of writing, revisions, fact checking, more revisions and so on. I guess I was thinking that they would be working on things con-currently so that when first box set is done, things are setup and going for the next one and so on.


My own skills at writing are not very polished yet. I enjoy creative writing, but 'mechanical' writing, such a a coherent rule book, is far more difficult for me.
One advantage of releasing the game in stages might be getting player feedback in time to take it into account for later releases.
One thing I noticed while designing games is that you never really 'finish' There are so many things you want to put in the game but time and money never allow it.
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Postby Saisei » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:31 am

To the OP, welcome to the hobby! glad to have fresh blood (Wahey puns).

I'm a big fan of the blood Mage class and all the neat little story ties that go with it i.e. running from both the Circle and the Templars and the possibility of becmoing an Abomination and I'm also a big fan of letting the game work for you and not the other way around.

If you want to slightly skew the rules go ahead. I might actually do it myself.

If you were looking for something related to blood magic and the core specialisation isn't there then I suggest something like this:

TALENT - Blood Magic
Class: Mage
Requirements: you must have the Magic(Blood) focus

You have delved into the forbidden knowledge of Blood Magic.

Novice: You gain the stunt Blood Sacrifice. SP cost 4. With this stunt, the cost of the spell you just cast is subtracted from your HP rather than your MP.

Journeyman: Your knowledge of Blood magic is deep. When you cast a Blood spell, its cost in mana points is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 1. You also gain one new Blood spell.


I'm not sure if that would be too powerful though. Also that wold mean creating a list of blood spells. Of course these could just be some of the existing spells but tweaked to fit what you want.

Just a suggestion anywho.
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Postby Radioactive Ape Colin » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:20 pm

Bill wrote:I actually design and publish pen and paper rpgs. (really! I am not making this up. I can't tell you my company or game names because I assume I am not allowed to post that here. And yes, I know anyone can claim anything on the internet:)


No, it's not against the terms of service here; in fact, you'll find most rpg companies and freelancers get along pretty well. We tend to be united by the love of gaming and while there are the odd personality clashes here and there these are the exceptions rather than the rule. It'd be somewhat crass if you were actively *advertising* your wares on someone else's forum, especially if you were also trashing the forum's official games, but I don't think GR would object if you mentioned you worked for X campany, or you'd worked on Y publication. After all, you're here showing love for what they're creating, and it's always cool when fellow designers appreciate what you've done because they really know what goes into it.

Take me for example; I've worked with a bunch of companies and have made many friends doing so (hence a very brief listing in my signature). I've been involved with ENnie and Origins award nominated and winning rpg publications. If anything like that was frowned upon I'd have been summarily stomped already, but I haven't.

You can see a list of the rpg publications I've contributed to HERE, if you're curious. I've even created my own rpg publishing endeavour and complete rpg in the last 7 months, and it's just about to go to print. You can see more about that at the site I linked above. So, have mo fear, you're not the only game designer here, nor the first to show an active appreciation for the work of another company. :)

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Freelancer: AFMBE, A|State, Atlantis, C&C, Faery's Tale Deluxe, Godlike, Hellas, Hollow Earth Exp., Iron Kingdoms d20, No Quarter, Omni, Talislanta, UnMet, Waste World, Wild Talents, etc.
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Postby Radioactive Ape Colin » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:25 pm

Hey Abhoth,

Welcome to the hobby, mate. Like most gamer types, tabletop rpgersare, on the whole, a pretty pleasant bunch. You'll always encounter some fanatics and weirdos among tabletop gamers, but the same can be said of any fandom (it wouldn't be a fandom without its oddballs, after all, nor would it be the internet). If you need any help or advice I'm pretty sure most folks would happily help you out, so don't worry about asking. :)

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Freelancer: AFMBE, A|State, Atlantis, C&C, Faery's Tale Deluxe, Godlike, Hellas, Hollow Earth Exp., Iron Kingdoms d20, No Quarter, Omni, Talislanta, UnMet, Waste World, Wild Talents, etc.
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Postby Bill » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:32 pm

Radioactive Ape Colin wrote:
Bill wrote:I actually design and publish pen and paper rpgs. (really! I am not making this up. I can't tell you my company or game names because I assume I am not allowed to post that here. And yes, I know anyone can claim anything on the internet:)


No, it's not against the terms of service here; in fact, you'll find most rpg companies and freelancers get along pretty well. We tend to be united by the love of gaming and while there are the odd personality clashes here and there these are the exceptions rather than the rule. It'd be somewhat crass if you were actively *advertising* your wares on someone else's forum, especially if you were also trashing the forum's official games, but I don't think GR would object if you mentioned you worked for X campany, or you'd worked on Y publication. After all, you're here showing love for what they're creating, and it's always cool when fellow designers appreciate what you've done because they really know what goes into it.

Take me for example; I've worked with a bunch of companies and have made many friends doing so (hence a very brief listing in my signature). I've been involved with ENnie and Origins award nominated and winning rpg publications. If anything like that was frowned upon I'd have been summarily stomped already, but I haven't.

You can see a list of the rpg publications I've contributed to HERE, if you're curious. I've even created my own rpg publishing endeavour and complete rpg in the last 7 months, and it's just about to go to print. You can see more about that at the site I linked above. So, have mo fear, you're not the only game designer here, nor the first to show an active appreciation for the work of another company. :)

Colin


Nice resume' ! I see you have worked on quite a few projects. I have two modules and three rpg's under my belt. Some for other companies but now mainly for my own company. Bedrock Games.
I am on this board though, because I love the dragon age setting and plan to run a game of it soon. I have been a big fan of Green Ronin for years and dragon age pen and paper looks excellent to me. I prefer what I call 'lean and mean' game systems, and this one feels right to me.
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Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:41 pm

Thank you for all the replies I appreciate the tips and advice :).
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Postby Abhoth » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:44 pm

Saisei wrote:To the OP, welcome to the hobby! glad to have fresh blood (Wahey puns).

I'm a big fan of the blood Mage class and all the neat little story ties that go with it i.e. running from both the Circle and the Templars and the possibility of becmoing an Abomination and I'm also a big fan of letting the game work for you and not the other way around.

If you want to slightly skew the rules go ahead. I might actually do it myself.

If you were looking for something related to blood magic and the core specialisation isn't there then I suggest something like this:

TALENT - Blood Magic
Class: Mage
Requirements: you must have the Magic(Blood) focus

You have delved into the forbidden knowledge of Blood Magic.

Novice: You gain the stunt Blood Sacrifice. SP cost 4. With this stunt, the cost of the spell you just cast is subtracted from your HP rather than your MP.

Journeyman: Your knowledge of Blood magic is deep. When you cast a Blood spell, its cost in mana points is reduced by 1, to a minimum of 1. You also gain one new Blood spell.


I'm not sure if that would be too powerful though. Also that wold mean creating a list of blood spells. Of course these could just be some of the existing spells but tweaked to fit what you want.

Just a suggestion anywho.


Wow thanks for that I appreciate it; Even if you just use the stunt that enbales you to power blood magic with your own health. Infact I could even say you could power it with the sacrifice of a sentient creature, the cost of the spell powered their bloody death.
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Postby Saisei » Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:50 am

No prob. And alternatively for the Journeyman part of it you could maybe say that the Blood Mage has learned to sacrifice others around them instead (Like in the game) and they can use another party member to fuel their spells or a spell.

Of course this would have repercussions in game but that's fun too!
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Postby Abhoth » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:22 am

Saisei wrote:No prob. And alternatively for the Journeyman part of it you could maybe say that the Blood Mage has learned to sacrifice others around them instead (Like in the game) and they can use another party member to fuel their spells or a spell.

Of course this would have repercussions in game but that's fun too!


In terms of Sacrifice (like in the game) I assume the victum would either be disabled in some way (tied up or stunned/unconsicous) or willing for that to work. Does that sound reasonble to you?
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