Spell Wording

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Spell Wording

Postby Krovikan » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:57 am

Quick question to throw out there, the Heal spells of Mages seems to be very under powered along with Heroic Offense (less then heal though). Quite often your tank is taking majority of the damage and usually strategically placed. To move up into Melee with the tank to heal him causes a lot of problems if the tank gets Skirmished and the front line breaks with only the poor Mage there to take usually 50% of the guys attacking the tank.

Should we take the "Your touch" mean literally that it is a touch spell or that is an invisible touch from range?
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Postby discuit » Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:16 pm

Yeh i found teh "touch" requirement a bit odd too, especially when the heal spell in the CPRG can be done at range....weird.
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Re: Spell Wording

Postby Zapp » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:41 pm

Krovikan wrote:Should we take the "Your touch" mean literally that it is a touch spell or that is an invisible touch from range?

Sorry I don't understand.

Are you asking if the spell's "touch" is in error and if it really is a ranged spell?
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Postby PaintOnASign » Sat Dec 19, 2009 6:47 pm

Yeah, he is. Although, he worded it very oddly, as there is no other way to take "Your touch." other than literally. I don't even know how he came up with "an invisible touch from range".

Other than that, I'm inclined to agree. Why is the Heal spell a touch action? Not only is the Heal spell in the crpg ranged, but that just forces a Mage to get into a deadlier position.
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Postby Jekias » Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:55 pm

I already (with my group) made a house rule that allows the heal spell to be cast on an Ally within 10 yards (including self) instead of touch.

There may be a more powerful heal in Set2 also, so I may revisit this option when the spells become more apparent then.
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Postby Aldaris » Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:50 am

PaintOnASign wrote:I don't even know how he came up with "an invisible touch from range".

That's propably a Japanese thing. 8)
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Postby Zapp » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:27 am

:lol:
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Postby Saisei » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:40 am

Hmm, I actually didn't even notice this, what with having a very Morrigan style mage in our party (Why heal someone else when you can save Drain Life for yourself?) but that does seem a little odd.

What you could use as a house rule is that the more MP the mage pumps into the spell to add D6's to the healing also adds distance in yards equal to your Will or Magic?

That would be my suggestion anywho.
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Postby Zapp » Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:05 am

My attempt at explaining why the pnp game differs from the crpg is that they're different mediums.

What works well in pnp might have issues as a crpg.

Always having a healer have to stand next to his "patient" in the crpg might come across as tedious micro-management.

While in the pnp game, it's much less of an issue. OTOH, in the pnp game perhaps it is otherwise too easy to "hide" in the background, or perhaps the the heal spell was considered a little too good?

Possible reasons why it was "nerfed" to touch range only - so that other spells will even be considered, and not automatically set aside?

Or simply that Cure Light Wounds have always been a touch spell? :)

---

This said, I don't think you'll break anything significant by giving it a short reach of 5 yards or so. At the very least, that would allow you to heal a character trapped behind some enemies. A degree of flexibility.

It's still close enough any enemies that want to kill you so the warrior stops healing his wounds, can do so.
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Postby Balgin Stondraeg » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:10 am

From what I can remember the healing spells performed in the novels are not ranged. And require touching the patient. Also, try not to think of a touch healing spell as something that forces your mage into combat. Think of it as something that forces a badly wounded character out of combat to fall back to the healer (ideally when one of his mates steps up to take his place).

In fact, that's just what Dragon Age roleplaying should be about:

Tegrin is badly wounded. Blood drips into his eye as he slouches, willpower alone keeping him on his feet. Before him the Genlock snarls, raising it's sword for a final blow.

Out of nowhere Norris barrels into the creature, sending it sprawling. Stamping down on it's breastplate he gives Tegrin a hard push, "get to the healer," he yells, "I can hold it!"

Feebly Tegrin staggers back, hoping he can make it to Salfas in time, or that the mage will see him and come to his assistance. Behind him he hears the genlock squirming beneath the Avvar's bootheal. Norris can't hold that thing for long...


Rather than "sending in the healer" you need to think of the sorely wounded being relieved and sent back to be patched up.
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Postby NathanGPLC » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:13 am

I like the illustration/example, Balgin; I've just been reading Jim Butcher's First Lords Fury, and the idea of having to really apply group tactics (albeit on a smaller scale than a legion) makes me happy :-)

I'll have to run with that idea, and I may use your example to sell it to my players. Thanks!

Blessed be,
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Postby Balgin Stondraeg » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:16 am

Feel free. The idea actualy came from my second combat test where Gwillym ap Morgan (Avvar hilssman warrior with a bow and a two handed sword) got so badly wounded by a genlock that Gorim of house Korkhill (dwarven axe and shield warrior) had to charge out of combat with his unwounded genlock (and pull off a lucky knockdown stunt) to save his friend's life. They were then able to finish off the second genlock (and if I'd rolled evens it would've slain the Avvar whop only had 2 life points left).

Interpretting the stunts tacticaly really helps so I personaly find the limmited range on healing much more interesting.
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Postby Krovikan » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:33 am

PaintOnASign wrote:Yeah, he is. Although, he worded it very oddly, as there is no other way to take "Your touch." other than literally. I don't even know how he came up with "an invisible touch from range".

Other than that, I'm inclined to agree. Why is the Heal spell a touch action? Not only is the Heal spell in the crpg ranged, but that just forces a Mage to get into a deadlier position.


Actually I was not asking if it was a mistake, just if it should be interpreted as touch or some mystical range spell they just described as touch even though not. Now that I think about it again I definitely continue to side with it being a touch as there was never a range component in the descriptions.

Zapp: I understand that PnP is different then CRPG; however as I said it seems like a pretty big nerf just because it is pnp and doesn't really work in my opinion.
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Postby Zapp » Sun Dec 20, 2009 3:31 pm

I can understand a desire to get an official explanation why the spell is touch in the pnp game. Perhaps stuff for a future Design Diary?
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Postby Saisei » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:58 am

I can just see Mr. Pramas reading these forums from on high...

"Argh! Just play the damn game! Don't question my authority!" *smite*

If you're reading this Mr. Pramas, we question because we love ;)
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Postby Bill » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:15 pm

I would see how it goes with touch range healing and if it seems troublesome at all, just make the range 20 feet or whatever.
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Postby randerson » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:43 pm

hello guys! is it okey if i joined? i like your forum
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Postby chameleonshin » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:58 pm

I think the "heal" action takes care of the "touch" healing just fine. your mages are more likely to have better Cunning scores, anyway. if you're spending MP, it would be nice to get a little bit more. i like the idea of adding range when you opt to use more MP. I feel like 3/9/12 yards would be appropriate for Set1 (but then, I don't have any idea what a Set2 heal spell is like... maybe 4/8/12 yards @ 1d6+3 or 2d6 Health per MP).
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Postby Zapp » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:41 am

randerson wrote:hello guys! is it okey if i joined? i like your forum

Welcome!
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