Very basic Ability focuses Question

[Mithrael]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum - although I've been reading things here for a while - and I need to make a very basic question, but is something I'm clearly not understanding on character creation: namely the ability focuses.

As I was creating my very first NPC (a circle mage elf), the problem appeared and here is the thing:

The background Circle Mage gives the choice: Arcane Lore or Historical Lore.
- Arcane Lore chosen.
Rolling my 2 2D6 , I got: a (2) +1 Communication, (11) +1 dexterity.

And then Came the Class Mage

which says nothing about focus, but point outs to choose one of the following talents: chirurgy, linguistic or Lore.

Here the plot thickens:

Talents says:

Chirurgy
Requeriment: Cunning (healing) focus.

Lore
Requirement: Cunning 2 or higher.

Now Questions:

1- Considering all the above, could the mage select the Chirurgy talent without the (healing) Focus?
1.1. - If the answer is positive, does it also get the (healing) focus?

2- If, for some unknown reason, the character had Cunning 1, could he take the Lore Talent?

3 - If the answer is negative for questions 1 and 2, then linguistics is the only talent available?


4- The first level character has only 1 focus? (Arcane Lore)
4.1 - But could have up to 3, in case of dice roll? (2 2d6 thing).

5 - So the NPC started with 1 focus, and through out the game (considering set 2) end with 10 foci? (1 for level 1, and 1 for every other level until 10th).


Thank you all in advance for the attention

[shonuff]

1- Considering all the above, could the mage select the Chirurgy talent without the (healing) Focus?

1.1. - If the answer is positive, does it also get the (healing) focus?[/quote]

I believe the way the RAW work is that you could not take the Chiurgy talent without the Healing focus. Otherwise, it gives a free focus to certain characters.

Personally, I would give everyone a free focus at level 1, to alleviate these problems.

2- If, for some unknown reason, the character had Cunning 1, could he take the Lore Talent?

I would say no, but you could always use the point buy system.

3 - If the answer is negative for questions 1 and 2, then linguistics is the only talent available?

Yup.

4- The first level character has only 1 focus? (Arcane Lore)
4.1 - But could have up to 3, in case of dice roll? (2 2d6 thing).

Yup.

5 - So the NPC started with 1 focus, and through out the game (considering set 2) end with 10 foci? (1 for level 1, and 1 for every other level until 10th).

Yup.

[Crazydwarf]

Welcome !

Looks like Shonuff got it all down.
Though I would urge you to take a gander at the errata, (or compare set 1 to set 2 if you have both) as I belive some talents got their prerequisites changed inbetween the sets.

[Siroh]

The idea is that for a PC to take a talent, any talent, they have to meet or exceed all of the requirements. So the character with a cunning less than 2 cannot take Lore.

Now, as for an NPC, you don't have to adhere to the PC building rules. You should probably give them any requirements for the talents you want them to have, but they aren't PCs, so they don't have to be built for balance with PCs. It's how you can run across Circle Mage Healers with incredible healing magic, and 20 Health, and nothing but basic offensive spells. Or a blacksmith that is capable of making extremely intricate metalwork, but has no class and can't fight off a single blight wolf even when armed with good equipment.

So, unless this NPC is supposed to be an enemy, I wouldn't even worry about balancing him or her with levels of Mage. Just make them capable of performing the feats you desire them to perform, and add on to their Talents, then Focuses and Abilities until it makes sense that they can do the job.

[Crazydwarf]

D'oh !
I completly missed that he was talking about NPC's and just assumed it was a PC due to the usage of rules.
Yeah NPC's can have pretty much whatever you want, no need for rolling and stuff at all.
You can if you want of course, but it's not needed.

Life as an NPC is good that way, plot gives you whatever you need, to do whatever you need to be doing

[Mithrael]

Thank you guys

It is true that I'm building a NPC, but I asked considering all the building rules because I would not know what to say to a player that decided to make this build.

Even though i understand that to take a talent you need to meet the general pre-requisites, I was just wondering since it is for the first level, if even a player could take chirurgy or lore, without the healing focus or cunning 2, or else the only available talent at the moment would be linguistic.

Personally I dont think it is fair for the player the chirurgy talent not being available because it would depend solely in a dice roll during the background check. (whereas the lore could be assumed that the player decided not to invest in cunning).

^^

[Elfie]

Actually, Set 2 includes rules for picking from that starting list rather than rolling, so a player CAN choose to be a healer at level 1.

[Crazydwarf]

Two notable things that come to my mind.

1. The random rolling generation of set 1 is IMHO utterly craptastic.
I would never recommend it's use for building PC's.
It is inherently unfair in its design, as two different PC's with the same wants in build, may end up drastically differant. For example two healers where one is not allowed the chirurgy talent.

Though I do understand that some people like this randomness for realism (as life is never fair) I personally loathe it for a game meant to distract me from life

2. Chirurgy is nice, but not a complete must-have to make a healer type character.
You can always pick it up at a later level when the prereq's are met.
Would you allow a Warrior to begin level 1 with full plate because the player desired to play a knight ?

[Loswaith]

Keep in mind a character (PC or NPC) doesnt need Chirurgy to be able to heal either, they can still heal as it's a standard action. The Chirurgy talent just makes it faster in battle at novice rank and better with further ranks.

[shonuff]

1. The random rolling generation of set 1 is IMHO utterly craptastic.
I would never recommend it's use for building PC's.
It is inherently unfair in its design, as two different PC's with the same wants in build, may end up drastically differant. For example two healers where one is not allowed the chirurgy talent.

Though I do understand that some people like this randomness for realism (as life is never fair) I personally loathe it for a game meant to distract me from life

Yeah, but I'm not totally in love with the point-buy system. IMHO, there are too few points, so characters will end up pretty similar. What I'm doing is the following:
1. Roll 4d6 and toss out lowest.
2. Swap attribute scores at will.
3. Pick 2 benefits from the racial chart.
4. Get a free focus to spend at creation.

I also give elvish as a starting language to anyone of elvish background. It's a pidgin language, and it makes no sense that it has to burn a benefit of an apostate elf mage who could essentially have the same background as a Dalish elf.

[Mithrael]

First of all thank you guys for the imput on how the chirurgy isn't really necessary for being a good healer from the start.

[/quote]

Yeah, but I'm not totally in love with the point-buy system. IMHO, there are too few points, so characters will end up pretty similar. What I'm doing is the following:
1. Roll 4d6 and toss out lowest.
2. Swap attribute scores at will.
3. Pick 2 benefits from the racial chart.
4. Get a free focus to spend at creation.

I also give elvish as a starting language to anyone of elvish background. It's a pidgin language, and it makes no sense that it has to burn a benefit of an apostate elf mage who could essentially have the same background as a Dalish elf.[/quote]

Your idea seem very interesting, although even with 4d6 and tossing the lowest there is still plenty of room for horrible scores =/. I liked the buying option much much more satisfactory, even though as you said, there are really few points to spend. on the other hand, at least there is no chance of starting with negative modifiers since you start with 0 in all of them, and cant lower them to get more points.

[shonuff]

True, but I find a variation of scores allows PCs a better ability to define their characters. And the ability to swap any scores makes it much less punishing.