Shapeshifter change

[shonuff]

How is everyone planning on handling shapeshifter change? Will it be like like The Incredible Hulk where clothing and items are ripped/left behind/etc. and are not apart of the change? Or will you allow clothing/items to make the transfer with the caster?

[Hellebore]

Good question.

I'm tempted to go with dropped equipment given the 'lower' fantasy setting, but that would get a little complicated and somewhat limit the usefulness of the spell (you'd always have to be going back to get your stuff, could lose it etc).

Given the fairly simple nature of the game I'd just go with your equipment reappearing when you turn back into your normal form, however you gain no bonuses from any items/armour etc you are carrying as you aren't currently 'equipped' with them when you're dressed as a stoat.

Hellebore

[shonuff]

That's the internal debate I'm having... I'd love if a shape change would force PCs to think about their gear. But going back and getting it could be too much of a time-sink.

[Hellebore]

It could also produce situations where other players are guarding/carrying their gear to protect it while they are off in batform or whathaveyou.

I think not being able to gain any benefits from gear is probably enough of a downside (no bonuses to defence, mana or whatever). In order get it all back you have to turn back into humanoid form, which stops the spell and expends the mana.

You could be a little more complicated and require they spend X extra mana to retain their gear. If they don't spend it they leave it all where they change form.

Hellebore

[shonuff]

True. Except being able to shift with gear allows the player to be a little reckless, IMO, or maybe advance too far. I don't know... will depend on the final version of the spell, probably.

[Ghostdanser]

I am not a big fan of importing things from other systems...but I used to enjoy playing Werewolf the Apocalypse and they had an interesting way around the problem by allowing shapeshifters to perform a Rite of Dedication, which essentially bound an object to the pc and it transformed into a tattoo when they shapeshifted. So maybe a similiar method could be used for Dragon Age, where you allow a shapeshifter (who knows the ritual) to bind an item to them and it transforms with them...maybe using (1 + Magic = number of items that can be dedicated). So if a mage has Magic +2 they could dedicate their staff, their robes and a dagger (or other 3 items of their choosing) to transform with them. This way they can guarantee they will have certain items that won't get lost...but having no backpack or rations could still be a problem.

Just a thought...

[Elfie]

In the video game, everything shifted with the caster... but when the Collar of Obedience (from A Bann Too Many) is removed from Blacktail, he is only wearing a loincloth made of dog's fur, which I took to imply that other equipment might not transform with him. It's a tough call. But it would be really tough to figure out the right balance without seeing the actual Shapeshifter spell. Looking at the NPC customization though, I'd have to say that all of their equipment DOES transform with them since the only way for them to transform is with a stunt.

[shonuff]

On the one hand, if shapeshifters' gear does not transfer, I can see it becoming very tiring over the course of the campaign.

On the other, I can think of several adventure seeds based on the loss of gear. Also, if a shapeshifter transforms into a horse, does that mean clothing can transform into a bit/bridle/saddle? Offhand, I would say no, but if I were playing a shifter, I would try to convince my GM if only because I like to argue...

[Loswaith]

I'd be inclined to go with 'personal' gear only, such as whats worn and the mages staff (since they can focus magic through that). Backpacks, bedrolls and the like wont change with you, though small pouches likely will.

Kinda plays up a bit that a shifter relies on their changing form, so only needs to 'travel light'.

[Lynata]

Phew, there's many ways to tackle this, and it comes down to "how gritty" you want the game to be.

The extreme version would be that any clothing not discarded before the act would get ripped apart, whilst the shapeshifter is screaming in pain as his bones and flesh transform into a new image, complete with nasty cracking sounds and a rather ... disorienting effect on the caster that would last for a moment even after the transformation is completed.

The easiest way, on the other hand, is the caster switching into a new shape with a snap of his fingers, any clothing transforming with him - and reappearing when he changes back. Ironically, for all the darkness the fantasy in Dragon Age has, this seems to be how it is done in the computer games, including the Sacred Ashes trailer (watch Morrigan at 02:10).
Interesting detail: she at least drops her staff before switching into spider-mode.

Or perhaps - to offer a compromise between these two options - how about making it so that only things that have been "alive" at some point (wool, wood, leather, bone) would transform with the caster, but anything else (metal, stone, crystal) not? For some reason, this feels much easier to imagine than, say, a slab of steel warping itself into the caster's new shape.

This would also encourage shapeshifters to keep their abilities in mind when purchasing gear, preferring "suitable" equipment such as knives made from bone or jewelry made from wood and amber instead of the usual steel and gold.

[Neith]

Ironically, for all the darkness the fantasy in Dragon Age has, this seems to be how it is done in the computer games...

And that's how it would be handled in most games...I mean, they can't have a naked woman running around on screen, now can they? Think of the children!

But true, there are a number of ways to handle this. I'd probably have the character not be able to "morph" with their equipment...uh...equipped. Most of them will have a bag or pack of some kind...they can stash their stuff in there (even their cloths or just keep a spare change in it). Maybe the pack can even still be attached to like, one of their legs if they're in spider form or something.

I don't like the idea of having all their equipment just drop when they shape-shift, but I don't like the idea of having all of it go with them either. So something like keeping your stuff in a bag that someone else can hold or attaching it to your morphed self seems better, for me at least.

[Lynata]

Think of the children!

lol - yes, it's a weird controversy

[shonuff]

Depending on how the spell actually works, though, having a shape shifter worry about their gear might work as a balancing factor. At level 6, if the gear is transferable, there is absolutely zero peril because I don't think anything could kill a fly with 50 or so HP. And at 10th level, having a PC who can (possibly) change into a dragon at will could seriously disrupt encounters.

[Koeran]

For me, as a player, it would be a case of comparing the inconvenience of having to retrieve gear versus the abilities granted by the spell. I'd actually be inclined to stay away from applying such penalties, as in my opinion, it would probably render the spell (and presumably the whole specialisation) too tedious and annoying to deal with. Even just detailing the rules for changing out of clothing would be annoying. Seriously, you're looking at a Full Round action, minimum, just to get ready to cast the spell (assuming clothing/gear is destroyed when it's removed). And then you have to actually cast it. So the mage will loose the first 2 turns before they can even do anything fun. And in my experience, most battles don't last longer than 8 rounds. I wouldn't want to play a character that was boring for 25% of encounters.

As a side note, ease of removal for shapchanging would go some way to explaining Morrigans choice of upper body covering...

[shonuff]

So the annoyance of having to retrieve gear vs. easy escape and possible dragon form?

I disagree that having to remove gear makes the spell unuseable, although it does make it unuseable, IMO, at a moment's notice. A plan would have to call for a shape shift; it would not be the immediate response to an ambush by a couple of wolves and a brigand.

[shonuff]

And as an aside, think about balancing every encounter starting at level 10 as if the PCs had a dragon... *shudder*

[shonuff]

A few more questions:

1. Will there be mechanics to change into other sentient races? And if you can change into other humanoid forms, would they be specific or generic? Morrigan seemed to imply that it's possible but that she didn't want to. Of course, Morrigan's also a liar.

2. If #1 is possible, what about Darkspawn? Or would there need to be some level of Taint?

3. Is gender a constant? If so, female shapeshifters would, IMO, have an advantage. At the smaller end of the spectrum, the more venemous animals are the females of the species. And while male mammals are typically larger and stronger, if a character is able to shift into a dragon form but must retain their gender, males would be stuck in drake-form, whereas females might be able to change into high dragons.

4. And this one might just be silly (or gross... your mileage may vary), but is reproduction possible in shifted form? I doubt the spell would last long enough for a female to come to term, but I imagine the spell should be longer than a duration defined by combat rounds. This might be a question best left to Elfie's campaign, though.

[Elfie]

4. And this one might just be silly (or gross... your mileage may vary), but is reproduction possible in shifted form? I doubt the spell would last long enough for a female to come to term, but I imagine the spell should be longer than a duration defined by combat rounds. This might be a question best left to Elfie's campaign, though.

Since you called me out, I'll give my thoughts on this one

Easy answer: No, it's magical transformation and not a true biological one, so reproduction is impossible.

Awesome answer: A male shapeshifter could absolutely impregnate a female whatever. Easy peasy. A female shapeshifter could become impregnated by a male whatever, but she would then become stuck in that form for the duration of the pregnancy! The magic only transforms herself and as soon as she becomes pregnant, there is something inside her that is both her and not her simultaneously, thereby "breaking" the transformation process and leaving her in animal form.

[shonuff]

I was just thinking you could breed a dragon army! Maybe that's how they came back. Male shapeshifter transformed into a drake... met a dragon... fell in love... you know the rest.