[Class Archetype] - Rogue

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[Class Archetype] - Rogue

Postby Saisei » Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:44 am

Howdy folks.

About a year ago I put up two new classes: The Alchemist and The Hunter.

Now I did this because we had planned on going back to our own homebrew world. That didn't happen. But with D&DNext out we have returned to it and I/we forgot how much we enjoyed it.

With that in mind I wanted to give a more D&D feel to the classes for our return and in one of the above topics Loswaith suggested using an Archetype system. I kind of expanded on that and have added to the classes for the levels that I consider "Dead Levels" i.e. you don't get any specific class bonus, just a new talent or new specialisation talent. The Archetype also gets something at first level, and two new Talents to choose from as well as the original 3 the Rogue gets (giving you a choice of one from a possible five).

I tried not to create any overpowered abilities or have abilities clash with existing talents and specialisations (not easy!) so hear's my first crack at 3 Rogue Archetypes: The Thief, The Hunter, & The Swashbuckler.

Rogue Archetypes
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Re: [Class Archetype] - Rogue

Postby Loswaith » Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:05 pm

They look good to me.

A couple of pointers:
Hunter: You may want to give the Animal Training benefits on the hunter an extra bit if they decide to actually take the Animal Training talent ranks. As it stands there is little reason for a Hunter to take those talents even if the player's concept for a character likely would have them (though if thats intentional its all good). Alternativly you can likely just give them the talent outright, as it would primarily be used for the characters animal companion, and as talents go its not an overly powerful one.

Thief: While I like the idea of the Yoink! stunt, having it at 3 stunt points seems a bit excessive for just grabing an item (rather situational), when using lightning strike/pierce armour/mighty blow makes it faster for the opponent to die or be defeated (prehaps even causing it) and thus letting the thief take everything.
A possibility is to let the thief move away from their opponent when they successfully take something (though it could be used even if they dont take anything). So for example a thief may take a key or some other item off their opponent and then run off with it.
Alternativly simply a reduction to 2 stunt points could work, making it in line with the hunter and swashbuckler stunt costs.

Swashbuckler: For them having a more nautical/pirate feel rather than a scimitar haps remaing it as a cutless, as that kind of gives the more pirate weapon imagery.
The Parley stunt is quite strong potentially removing an opponents major action (especially since others like taunt only give a -1 penality for the 2sp). Possible alternatives are a defencive penality, loss of a minor action, or that it pushes the opponents initiative to the bottom of the initiative list (they wouldnt gain an extra action if they went before the swashbuckler) as they have been 'put on the back foot' so to speak and thusly slower to respond than normal.
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Re: [Class Archetype] - Rogue

Postby Saisei » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:21 am

Loswaith wrote:They look good to me.

A couple of pointers:
Hunter: You may want to give the Animal Training benefits on the hunter an extra bit if they decide to actually take the Animal Training talent ranks. As it stands there is little reason for a Hunter to take those talents even if the player's concept for a character likely would have them (though if thats intentional its all good). Alternativly you can likely just give them the talent outright, as it would primarily be used for the characters animal companion, and as talents go its not an overly powerful one.


I was thinking that myself, but the logic was that the Hunter would be quite solitary and focused, so if they wanted to become a Ranger they would have to do the specific training necessary for getting that talent. I think I'll either just give them the talent outright, or keep it as is and have their Animal Companion getting the higher level monster templates as they level up.

Thief: While I like the idea of the Yoink! stunt, having it at 3 stunt points seems a bit excessive for just grabing an item (rather situational), when using lightning strike/pierce armour/mighty blow makes it faster for the opponent to die or be defeated (prehaps even causing it) and thus letting the thief take everything.
A possibility is to let the thief move away from their opponent when they successfully take something (though it could be used even if they dont take anything). So for example a thief may take a key or some other item off their opponent and then run off with it.
Alternativly simply a reduction to 2 stunt points could work, making it in line with the hunter and swashbuckler stunt costs.


I initially had it as 2 Stunt points but increased it for some reason. I think I'll drop it to two and allow it to be used in RP situations aswell when you generate stunts.

Swashbuckler: For them having a more nautical/pirate feel rather than a scimitar haps remaing it as a cutless, as that kind of gives the more pirate weapon imagery.


Cutlass! That's the feckin' thing I couldn't remember! lol

The Parley stunt is quite strong potentially removing an opponents major action (especially since others like taunt only give a -1 penality for the 2sp). Possible alternatives are a defencive penality, loss of a minor action, or that it pushes the opponents initiative to the bottom of the initiative list (they wouldnt gain an extra action if they went before the swashbuckler) as they have been 'put on the back foot' so to speak and thusly slower to respond than normal.


I think dropping the opponent to the bottom of the initiative is a sound idea.


Thanks for the advice!
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Re: [Class Archetype] - Rogue

Postby Woodclaw » Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:57 am

I haven't read through the whole document, but I like the concept. The lack of flexibility at first level is one of the few things about the AGE system that consistenlty bugs me.

Your work looks like a good solution.
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Re: [Class Archetype] - Rogue

Postby Saisei » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:59 am

Going through some old posts on various forums looking for some inspiration and came across/remembered Joja's Dragon Hack.

I then realised that what I'm doing is ridiculously similar! Ah well, I think I'll keep going with it anyway lol
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Re: [Class Archetype] - Rogue

Postby shonuff » Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:38 am

Loswaith wrote:Swashbuckler: For them having a more nautical/pirate feel rather than a scimitar haps remaing it as a cutless, as that kind of gives the more pirate weapon imagery.


Second the cutlass replacing the scimitar. What about adding a stiletto for a third weapon? It could function as a dagger, but bypasses 1 AR from opponents in mail/plate.
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Re: [Class Archetype] - Rogue

Postby Vaelorn » Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:48 am

Saisei wrote:Going through some old posts on various forums looking for some inspiration and came across/remembered Joja's Dragon Hack.

I then realised that what I'm doing is ridiculously similar! Ah well, I think I'll keep going with it anyway lol


I'm still working on an Eberron variant of that - but haven't heard from Josh in a while so don't want to tread on his toes by releasing it before he releases Dragon Hack!

So far I've got racial talents for 19 races, 20 national backgrounds, 14 class talents (i.e. specializations to take at 1st level, like artificer, ranger etc), a whole bunch of regular specializations (some original, some from other posts on here), some additional talents (e.g. Valenar Fighting Style), and psionics rules. Key sticking point at the moment is magic so I've put it on hold to work on the next version of my Conan mod...
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