New Specialization - Shadow Blade

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New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:07 pm

Hi all, this is my first post in these forums. Here I present a specialization that popped to mind. Constructive criticism is welcome! This specialization tries to bridge the gap between mage and assassin, I know that there is no such thing as shadow magic in Thedas, at least not yet, so I believe that a specialization can fill the concept of the infltrator/assassin mage.

Shadow Blade, Requirements: Mage, Dexterity 3, Magic 3, Dexterity Focus (Stealth)

In the magocracy that rules over the decadent, and mighty, Tevinter Imperium sometimes some issues cannot be resolved in the ancient halls of the Senate, some issues are too important to be risked in the uncertain outcome of a mage duel, in such occasion the shadow blades are used by the powerful mages as daggers directed at the hearts of their rivals.
The tradition of the Shadow Blade was first created inside the Imperium, it tried to blend shadow magic with stealth in order to create the perfect assassin. Inside the Imperium a specific order, called the Black Hand, directs these assassin-mages and sells their services to Senators or to powerful mage lines that seek entrance to the political arena that comprises the most powerful nation in Thedas. Outside the Imperium the Shadow Blades are feared by name alone, as their reputation precedes them.

By entering this specialization, the mage can wear light armor as if he was trained which strains his spellcasting as usual, furthermore he becomes trained in one of the following weapon groups, light blades or bows.

Novice: Dark Vision – The mage eliminates any penalties when operating in total darkness, in cases of other causes for reduced vision, such as fog, the mage reduces penalties by -1 instead.

Journeyman: Spectral Weapons – By spending 4 MP per weapon, the character can create weapons of blackness that trail inky tendrils as he moves them, these weapons remain for a number of minutes equal to the Magic Ability of the character. These weapons are of average quality and cannot be broken as they simply reform, furthermore the character cannot be disarmed as long as the power remains as they simply reform in hjis hands. Ranged weapons have infinite ammunition for the duration of the spell. When using these spectral weapons, the character adds his Magic instead of Strength to his damage. These shaped weapons can be dispelled normally as any other spell could. Summoning the Spectral Weapons is a Minor action.

Master: Shadow Dissolution – The mage dissolves in scattering shadows and reforms up to 20 yards away, this power costs 5MP to invoke and is a Minor action. If the mage attacks in the same turn he enjoys a +1 bonus on his attack as well. The Mage must be able to physically reach the point at which he arrives, he cannot cross distances that he would be otherwise unable to cross, examples include crossing too wide chasms or moving through walls.
Last edited by Dragon Son on Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:44 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Elfie » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:46 pm

I like the concept, but a couple notes:

There are no such weapon groups as archery or thrown. For archery, I assume you mean bows. But for "thrown" there is no specific weapon group that covers that. Thrown weapons exist across several weapon groups (light blades, axes, spears).

Teleportation is explicitly non-existent in the mythos of Dragon Age, so I think Shadow Step needs to be replaced or at least reworked in such a way as to not allow the mage to be disappearing and reappearing.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Andferne » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:09 pm

I've thought about introducing shadow magic to my dragon age games, just haven't decided to sit down and figure it all out yet.

While Origins lore sets up there is no teleportation. We see it used frequently in Dragon Age 2, but that can be looked at as a game design. However we also have Awakening in which the Dalish Elf girl (Forgot her name at the moment, starts with a V, I believe.) vanishes into the ground. So traveling magic is used, but this is what has got me thinking.

It is stated that Teleporting is not possible. However one can meld into the ground and travel this way. As seen by the Elf mentioned above, as well as rage demons. What has me thinking is what if Shadow Stepping is Fade Stepping. A Mage uses magically to temporarily slide into the Fade, and then reappear elsewhere. Sort of like Blinking through the shadows/folds of the Fades shadows.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:25 pm

There are no such weapon groups as archery or thrown. For archery, I assume you mean bows. But for "thrown" there is no specific weapon group that covers that. Thrown weapons exist across several weapon groups (light blades, axes, spears).


Yeah you are right, while writing this I'm away from my books... good point.

Teleportation is explicitly non-existent in the mythos of Dragon Age, so I think Shadow Step needs to be replaced or at least reworked in such a way as to not allow the mage to be disappearing and reappearing.


I beg to differ, long teleportation is non-existent in the Dragon Age setting, you can see short range teleportation all the time in DAII, and shadow step does exactly that, short teleportation into shadow.

It is stated that Teleporting is not possible. However one can meld into the ground and travel this way. As seen by the Elf mentioned above, as well as rage demons. What has me thinking is what if Shadow Stepping is Fade Stepping. A Mage uses magically to temporarily slide into the Fade, and then reappear elsewhere. Sort of like Blinking through the shadows/folds of the Fades shadows.


That's the concept!
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Elfie » Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:13 am

Psychically transporting into the fade is also nearly impossible. It's only been done once by a huge number of Tevinter mages working together, and that destroyed the Golden City (turning it into the Black City).

I know that visually DA2 has people popping into and out of existence all the time in combat, but that's a visual special effect that contradicts the lore of the game. David Gaider (who wrote the story for games and the books and created the whole DA universe) pretty much explained this as "The graphics people needed effects that looked flashy. Any degree of teleportation is still impossible." (paraphrasing)

Moving through solid objects (sliding into the ground and coming out elsewhere) probably works as long as it's not instantaneous travel. The character still has to be able to move that distance.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:48 am

Psychically transporting into the fade is also nearly impossible. It's only been done once by a huge number of Tevinter mages working together, and that destroyed the Golden City (turning it into the Black City).


Let's not miss the topic here, you're talking about a vast all-powerful blood magic ritual, the scope is completely different from what I am suggesting Elfie. I know that overland movement teleportation is banned as a concept, and I agree with it as a fundamental rule, what I'm suggesting does not break this fundamental rule, it merely allows for stylised movement with many benefits, it doesn't suddenly change the society, history, or magic fundamentals of Thedas, at least that's how I see it mate.

Anyhows, I would be interested in hearing your opinion on an alternate Master power for the Shadow blade!
Apart from the fluffy part with which you do not agree, and that's cool, do you think it's ok as a master power for my specialization? how do you like the rest of the powers and prerequisites?
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Elfie » Sat Nov 03, 2012 12:42 pm

Exactly, "a vast all-powerful blood magic ritual" is what it took to physically transport into the fade, so I don't think allowing it even at short distances as a specialization works if you're trying to stick to the lore of Dragon Age.

I like the Novice and Journeyman level Talents, but I'm not sure about automatically granting two weapon groups. Any other specialization that grants a weapon group only grants one. Maybe the mage gets the choice between the two? Or perhaps he doesn't actually get trained in those weapon groups, but at the Journeyman Level, Light Blades and Bows are the only things he can conjure, but he treats them as if he has the weapon group?

For the Master Level, what about giving them the Rogue's Backstab ability? Not Bluff, just Backstab. That builds well off the Journeyman level and fits well with the mage assassin theme.

Oh and for Dark Vision, if the mage's eyes visibly change when using this ability, I'd make it an activated ability instead of an automatic ability. It'd suck if a mage were instantly identified as being magical when ever someone dimmed the lights. I might just use the part about eliminating penalties due to darkness and not the "other causes for reduced vision." Since this is specifically a shadow-related specialization, it wouldn't make much sense to lessen bonuses for cover.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Koeran » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:07 pm

The only people who would be capable (if anyone is) of teleporting like that would be Dream Walkers. And Dream Walkers are to Mages, what Mages are to Non-Mages. So not exactly the kind of thing you create Specialisations for. It'd be like having Specialisation: Sandal.

I think the Novice level is too much. As has been mentioned, all other specialisations that offer weapon group training, only offer one. In addition to 2 weapon groups you have a specialised power (which is fairly typical of most specialisations) and tweaked armour training. Which if I'm reading it correctly grants the Rogues light armour feature as well as the ability to ignore light armours Mana Strain. Which, if so, is way too much. A Novice Shadow Mage is going to be better at wearing armour than an Arcane Warror, and that's supposed to be pretty exclusive to Arcane Warriors. Also "Insert argument that the Rock Armour spell is still better" here.

The Mana costs in the Journeyman level are too low. Either increase them, or drop them completely. Keeping track of spending 1 point here and there when you have over 100 points of Mana is just going to be annoying, and only effect the character in the rare and extreme circumstance that they're running super low on Mana and don't have any potions. If you keep Mana costs (and increase them), which I suggest you do, I'd also make them pay for the ammunition for bows as well as summoning additional thrown weapons. It just makes more sense to me that way. I'd probably lower the summoning action to a Move Action which can be combined with a Ready Action if desired. That way Readying a Spectral Weapon is the same as drawing any other weapon, only it costs Mana as well. I'd probably apply different Mana costs based on the weapon drawn too. More Mana for more dangerous weapons, and I'd apply a moderate amount to cover the summoning of a quiver (Which would be summoned at the same time as it's corresponding ranged weapon).

The idea of an Assassin that specialises in killing Mages is a logical one, which I definitely think has a place within the Dragon Age Setting. The Tevinter Imperium, The Circle, The Chantry, The Mages Collective & the Antivan Crows would all have use for them (probably other organisations too). I just don't think that using "Shadow Magic" is necessary.
To be honest, aside from the teleportation (which as has been mentioned doesn't fit with the setting) the Shadow Mage hasn't got any real advantage that will help them in assassinating a Mage. Dark Vision is nice, but as soon as things start happening, there'll be enough illumination around that it won't matter. The Armour only lets the Shadow Mage live a little longer, but he could do that using Rock Armour anyway (and the mage he's fighting is probably using it as well), that and plenty of spells will ignore it anyway. The weapons don't do enough damage to be worth using (Light weapons and a lower Strength score). And the Shadow Mages attack rating is likely to be lower than average as well, having to choose between boosting damage (Strength or Perception) or attack bonus (Dexterity) on every secondary increase.
Though in my opinion, Arcane Warriors suffer from similar issues, and they're an official specialisation...
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Elfie » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:13 am

Somehow I didn't even notice the light armor bonuses. I agree, that should be dropped too. And I'm on board with increasing the mana cost for summoned weapons.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:06 am

The idea of an Assassin that specialises in killing Mages is a logical one, which I definitely think has a place within the Dragon Age Setting. The Tevinter Imperium, The Circle, The Chantry, The Mages Collective & the Antivan Crows would all have use for them (probably other organisations too).


Misunderstanding on your part, this specialization is an assassin/mage, not a mage that specializes on killing mages in an assassin way.

To be honest, aside from the teleportation (which as has been mentioned doesn't fit with the setting) the Shadow Mage hasn't got any real advantage that will help them in assassinating a Mage.


Same as above.

The Mana costs in the Journeyman level are too low. Either increase them, or drop them completely. Keeping track of spending 1 point here and there when you have over 100 points of Mana is just going to be annoying, and only effect the character in the rare and extreme circumstance that they're running super low on Mana and don't have any potions.


Sorry but I'll have to disargee with that. 1 Mana point is different from zero, reducing your MP by 1 is not that boring. The reason that the cost is minimal, is that the character pays with 1 mana point the fact that he cannot be disarmed, and that weapons cannot be found on him even if someone searches him.

If you keep Mana costs (and increase them), which I suggest you do, I'd also make them pay for the ammunition for bows as well as summoning additional thrown weapons.


Good call, I totally agree on this one.

Based on the helpful cricism by you Elfie and Koeran I'll re-edit Shadow Blade. Thank you guys!
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:21 am

Here is the final form, I know that you disagree with the Shadow Step but I think it's crucial for the flavor and style for the specialization. Changes in costs as well as proficiencies and the light armor thingy.

Thx a lot for the input guys!
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Loswaith » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:21 pm

Personaly I wouldn't bother with the minor action to re-summon a spectral weapon, simply give them a duration (something like 1 minute per magic point) and within that time frame they can be resummoned as a free action. This puts thrown, melee and projectile weapons in the same boat and has no inconsistencies. You likely want to let them add magic instead of strength or perception to damage as well when using a spectral blade.

I would likely avoid the shadow step for reasons others have mentioned and in that it makes the Shadow Blade better as a thief than an assassin, as an alternative I'd go something like;

Shadow Strike
When attacking with a spectral weapon the Shadow Blade can perform a Backstab (as a rogue). If the hit is successful the damage done reduces the targets magic points by an equal number to the damage inflicted on the mage, in addition any armour given by magic (such as Rock Armour) is also ignored.


Shadow Strike makes them dangerous to casters, gives them tools better suited to killing than infiltration, while it also plays up why they actually would use leather armour as they know another Shadow Blade can bypass magical armour, so atleast want some protection should the occasion occur.

An alternative to dark vision (or any of the other abilities) could be
Shadow Cloak
As a minor action a Shadow Blade can spend 3 mana and draw in the shadows about themselves (for upto 1 round per magic point) making them difficuilt to see. The Shadow Blade can immediatly make a Dexterity (Stealth) test vs a perception (seeing), of any on-lookers, if successful the Shadow Blade appears to have vanished from view of those the test was successful against. To anyone else the Shadow Blade appears as a shadowy figure.


Shadow Cloak could give the impression of the Blade teleporting, as they would 'disapear' from one location and appear in another but still not actually be teleporting.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:30 am

Thanks for the feedback Loswaith,

I would likely avoid the shadow step for reasons others have mentioned and in that it makes the Shadow Blade better as a thief than an assassin, as an alternative I'd go something like


Hmm, the way I see it, infiltration is a most important part of an assassination, but I get what you mean.

Shadow Strike
When attacking with a spectral weapon the Shadow Blade can perform a Backstab (as a rogue). If the hit is successful the damage done reduces the targets magic points by an equal number to the damage inflicted on the mage, in addition any armour given by magic (such as Rock Armour) is also ignored.


That's a bit too Templar in nature, the guy is not a killer of Mages, he is an assassin/mage. Furthermore I think this is a bit overpowered, don't forget that the Shadow Blade can cast spells normally and thus has all the damage potential of a mage.

Shadow Cloak
As a minor action a Shadow Blade can spend 3 mana and draw in the shadows about themselves (for upto 1 round per magic point) making them difficuilt to see. The Shadow Blade can immediatly make a Dexterity (Stealth) test vs a perception (seeing), of any on-lookers, if successful the Shadow Blade appears to have vanished from view of those the test was successful against. To anyone else the Shadow Blade appears as a shadowy figure.

Shadow Cloak could give the impression of the Blade teleporting, as they would 'disapear' from one location and appear in another but still not actually be teleporting.]


This I really like. Although it is a bit ninja in nature and description I believe it could really suit this specialization. The thing is that visually Shadow Cloak and Shadow Step are a bit identical. It seems that since 3 people are against Shadow step I'll actually have to change it and I'll probably use this as a basis.

A new edit is imminent, cheers!
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Loswaith » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:57 pm

Actually that was the reasoning behind making shadow cloak the way it was so you can effectivly have the same kind of thing (perception often being the key element) but avoiding the teleportation which isn't part of the world and from what I can tell a little further than the intent of magic in the world can achieve.

Shadow Strike was the intent of an assassin of mages (that happens to be a mage), which was what I thought you were trying to achieve. It doesn't realy suit the concept of a magic weilding assassin.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:43 am

Final edit here, thanks to everyone for their very helpful feedback! I hope this version of the Master power, as well as Journeyman, is more appealing to my fellow forumites.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Koeran » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:26 pm

Unless I missed it, there's no mention of what action/time is involved in summoning weapons. I don't know if that's intentional or not.

Shadow Dissolutions Mana cost is WAY too low. I'd be inclined to push it up to as high as 20.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:43 am

Unless I missed it, there's no mention of what action/time is involved in summoning weapons. I don't know if that's intentional or not.


My bad, it's a Minor action.

Shadow Dissolutions Mana cost is WAY too low. I'd be inclined to push it up to as high as 20.


Hmmm, I accept that it might be low but 20? Don't you think it's a bit too much?

I'll re-edit and set the cost of Shadow Dissolution to 5MP and add the fact that summoning the Spectral weapons is a Minor action.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Estoirtoh » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:20 am

Just a wild guess, but maybe Koeran meant 'up to 20' in a way like: 1 MP / yard of teleportation. So teleporting 1 yard would cost 1 MP, 5 yards 5MP and 20 yards 20 MP.

EDIT: After reading his post again, I'm not so sure that that's what he meant, but I think it'd be an acceptable solution nevertheless.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Koeran » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:35 pm

Okay, let me elaborate.

Look at Shadow Dissolution as if it was a spell.
Spells have a casting time of AT LEAST a Major action.
All spells you have to roll against a TN just to see if it works at all. ie, they all have a chance of failure. And the ones with prerequisites can cause Magical Mishaps when you do fail.

Shadow Dissolution as it stands, has the fastest casting time of any spell. No TN, so it's 100% reliable and even though it's of a magnitude high enough that it would have prerequisites, it'll never risk a Magical Mishap. It also allows the character to move further than they could ever hope to move under their own steam in the same action as they otherwise would do so. I my opinion it's at least as powerful as a mid range spell, if not more so. Given the effect, and reliability, I don't think 20MP is too much.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Loswaith » Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:55 pm

Just for refrence a mage character can move 10 + dex yards as a minor action normally, so would need a 10 dex to move the 20 yards for the minor action.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:27 am

Look at Shadow Dissolution as if it was a spell.
Spells have a casting time of AT LEAST a Major action.
All spells you have to roll against a TN just to see if it works at all. ie, they all have a chance of failure. And the ones with prerequisites can cause Magical Mishaps when you do fail.

Shadow Dissolution as it stands, has the fastest casting time of any spell. No TN, so it's 100% reliable and even though it's of a magnitude high enough that it would have prerequisites, it'll never risk a Magical Mishap. It also allows the character to move further than they could ever hope to move under their own steam in the same action as they otherwise would do so. I my opinion it's at least as powerful as a mid range spell, if not more so. Given the effect, and reliability, I don't think 20MP is too much.


Thank you for the feedback, I'm afraid I completely disagree with you on this.
Yes of course this ability is very useful, but the fact that it is performed by a Mage does not mean that it works as a spell. Allow me to give you an example, the Dispel Ability (can't remember the name) of the Templar it costs 0MP, the fact that you do not roll in order to achieve Shadow Dissolution is due to the fact that it does not work as a spell and shouldn't be compared to one. What you get from these 5MP is a doubled speed for one round and a +1 bonus to attack (if you attack), these things cost a lot less than 20MP in my opinion.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Estoirtoh » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:30 pm

Maybe so, but the Templar ability has severe drawbacks. The user suffers a -2 to defense until the beginning of his next turn and it cancels ALL spells, those of allies and those of foes alike.
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Re: New Specialization - Shadow Blade

Postby Dragon Son » Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:33 pm

Maybe so, but the Templar ability has severe drawbacks. The user suffers a -2 to defense until the beginning of his next turn and it cancels ALL spells, those of allies and those of foes alike.


Indeed, however compare "automatic dispel of all magical effects" to "increased movement and +1 to attack"... the severe penalties that the Templar suffers make up for the dispel he "casts", consider the 5MP as the price that the Shadow Blade pays for the benefits that Shadow Dissolution offers.

If you use the Shadow Blade in your game, which I hope you will, and find that Shadow Dissolution is overpowered feel free to change its cost to an amount that you find better and more appropriate!
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