Device Flaw

[bcr19374]

This thread got me thinking about how to best use the device flaw. What do you guys recommend as ways to use the device flaw if the PCs (or villains) take it? Some thoughts:

If they have an item like a ring of strength, the enemy could try to swipe it. What would be the rule for this, a disarm? Or maybe opposed dexterity checks?

Armor has the device flaw but it seems like it doesn't suffer from the flaw that much. You can't really take away the armor. Would it be possible to try to damage a suit of power armor rather than its wearer and would that be any easier?

Weapon powers would have to spend a half action to ready as opposed to innate powers, so that's a decent balance.

Other ideas?

[Neo]

This thread got me thinking about how to best use the device flaw. What do you guys recommend as ways to use the device flaw if the PCs (or villains) take it? Some thoughts:

If they have an item like a ring of strength, the enemy could try to swipe it. What would be the rule for this, a disarm? Or maybe opposed dexterity checks?

Armor has the device flaw but it seems like it doesn't suffer from the flaw that much. You can't really take away the armor. Would it be possible to try to damage a suit of power armor rather than its wearer and would that be any easier?

Weapon powers would have to spend a half action to ready as opposed to innate powers, so that's a decent balance.

Other ideas?

I think you may be confusing Armor with Protection, Armour you could very much take away as it is work, it isn't part "OF" a hero that protection, which is why Armor gets the device flaw and Protection does not.

Device flaw represents something in which the power dwells other than the hero directly and which if removed causes the loss of the powers it carries.

It should be noted that "NOWHERE" is it stated that it has to be easy to remove a device in order for it to qualify for the "device" flaw, that is simply the interpretation some players give to the flaw.

[bcr19374]

It should be noted that "NOWHERE" is it stated that it has to be easy to remove a device in order for it to qualify for the "device" flaw, that is simply the interpretation some players give to the flaw.

Actually... From page 110:

A device constitutes a flaw for a particular power, since a device can be taken away, break down, malfunction, or simply run out of energy. A device that doesn't have any of these drawbacks is more of a special effect than a device, and so doesn't constitute a flaw for that power

The example given is a bionic arm; it can never be taken away and doesn't run out of energy so it doesn't get the device flaw. It seems to me that in a game where power armor can never be disabled or otherwise be separated from the player the device flaw wouldn't be valid.

[Tesuji]

There are multiple factors for device. Each device will have its own levels of the individual aspects or flavors of the problem. As long as the total problems remain about the same, the individual flavor variances do not matter.

the big four are...

taken away: Some items are easier to take away than others. Something like armor might simply be a case of a scenario starting when the character is out of it and cannot instantly suit up. For guns disarms could work. i would not let a ring be taken away unless it was after a grapple-pin or a helpless situation.

break down: To me this represents failing due to damage. A gun which is targetted and damaged, an armor suit which gets pounded on, and while a magic ring might not be targettable reasonably, it might be more fragile and thus break from area attacks. Some devices may not even be subject to damage, but still be devices.

malfunction: Ths is for more circumstantial problems. The device simply goes haywore, out of control or starts not working properly but not really due to attacks. This one is wide open due to FX. A powered armor suit might go haywaire as a virus put in by a disgruntled developer kicks in or it might be a fluke thing from unusual sunspots. A magic ring might suddenly go all hellraiser on you after a botched demonic summoning puts out waves of chaotic magic across the city, so that using the ring before doing proper cleansing rituals, is dangerous... which makes going off and dealing with that botched summoning even more problematic.

run out of juice: Hey, who says that power core never has its bad days. This one is especially apropos for those smaller items which are not targettable. having the ring run out of juice while the magic staff is still charged up is a nice bit of FX tradeoff. One sub-item for this one is the "cooking off charges" approach, where as a side effect of another attack, the energy is leeched out or the rounds cook off. For example, when the character is targetted by a MYSTIC DRAIN, even if HE saves, the magic ring loses energy, or even if saving against a lightning blast, the gunslinger's ammo cooks off and he has to toss his "spare clips" and suddenly ammo is in short supply.

I am sure you can come up with a dozen or so other good examples based on whatever the FX are for the device.

The key is simple, in MnM its not a simple static predefined limited set of options. The big four covers a wide range of possible situational flavors. If you guy has a magic ring instead of a staff, thats fine. Do not use "shot in combat for the ring but let circumstances play on its small and fragile nature with more malfunctions and more out of juice problems.

mix and match.

[Neo]

It should be noted that "NOWHERE" is it stated that it has to be easy to remove a device in order for it to qualify for the "device" flaw, that is simply the interpretation some players give to the flaw.

Actually... From page 110:

A device constitutes a flaw for a particular power, since a device can be taken away, break down, malfunction, or simply run out of energy. A device that doesn't have any of these drawbacks is more of a special effect than a device, and so doesn't constitute a flaw for that power

The example given is a bionic arm; it can never be taken away and doesn't run out of energy so it doesn't get the device flaw. It seems to me that in a game where power armor can never be disabled or otherwise be separated from the player the device flaw wouldn't be valid.

I don;t know, just look at the Invincible Iron Man comics, his armor is forever getting taken from him... heck it even gained Sentience at one point!

[Gamskee]

Not to mention, most of the really good Iron Man fights bust up his armor bad enough he may have completely unarmored sections by the end.

[Bailywolf]

Another decice factor- can it be replaced? If a destroyed device can be replaced with a story event it is not as harsh as a device which must be repurchased from scratch with power points. This is on of the dials in M&M you can use to tune your setting. Most comic settings have fairly soft rules of acquisition- get your hypno-ray smashed by a pesky hero, and you can replace it with a simple return ot base during down time. Batman makes good use of equipment stashes and whatnot to replace his lost or destroyed gear. Something to consider when creating your setting is how easy or difficult will characters find it to recreate their devices?

-B

[Carnifex]

to avoid arguments, I would make sure that anyone with armor etc knows that it may occasionally break or run out of juice. It might be tempting to keep track of how often Gun guy has his gun disarmed, and try to have the armor Item flaw come up about as often.

[Liberator]

This is one area I think Champions covered quite well: Foci.

You'd get different disadvantage modifiers for different kind of 'focus' of 'devices' for you power.

If memory serves:

OAF: Obvious Accessible Focus- could be taken away and it was obvious that the power came from it (glowing energy rod or something)
OIF: Obvious Inaccessible Focus- Like a glowing gem in your forehead, you knew it was the power, but it couldn't be taken away (well...not without one heck of a struggle and a bone saw)
IAF: Inobvious Accessible Focus- Something like a wedding ring that granted you power (insert joke here about wedding ring draining power) but doesn't blink or anything when the power works
IIF: This was the lowest disadvantage modifier. This would be like...um...something surgically implanted into you that couldn't be taken out...maybe...

With my group, I make them tell me if it's a device that can be taken away and used against them too. They have to describe it to me in some amount of detail as to what happens when the power activates and so on.

[palehorse]

Liberator said:

This is one area I think Champions covered quite well: Foci.

Just to clarify: the Inaccessible foci were simply ones that couldn't be taken away in combat or from someone who is resisting. If you render the target unconcious or immobile out of combat, you can remove them normally. Things like Iron Man's armor or GL's power ring would be inaccessible. An item which requires surgery to remove (like a bionic arm) wouldn't be a foci at all.

[Liberator]

Aha...that's right Palehorse! Thanks for the assist!

[palehorse]

No prob... I owe it all to my misspent youth as a Champions guru.