Free-Form System

Discuss our dark fantasy adventure tabletop roleplaying game based on BioWare's computer game, Dragon Age Origins.

Free-Form System

Postby DracoDruid » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:53 am

Greetings everyone.

Well. Here it is. My Free-Form Dragon Age (formerly known as Class-less System).
(Download-link in my signature)

I now fully incorporated the background-free option and readded the revised versions of the talents.

Please feel free to post constructive criticism, especially if you found something that might be too unbalanced.

Thanks.


DESIGN NOTES:
As a base for the point costs I used the "Buying Background benefits" from Set 2. Such as focuses cost 1 and ability improvements 2 points. Then I went on from there, summing all benefits for every class and comparing them.

Since Stunt Bonuses can now be taken as advancements, all talents that just give an equal benefit (but usually with a limitation on the weapons to use) have seen some revision.

Others have been changed more drastically or even went obsolete.
Last edited by DracoDruid on Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:21 am, edited 17 times in total.
Version 1.7 of my Free-Form Dragon Age rules.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Hellebore » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:12 am

Makes sense. I like your focus added to success rule. Very neat. How much does an ability point cost? I can only see focuses and talents. It all seems to work as you are intending it to.


This works within using levels, but I find that for true freedom you really shouldn't be using levels. In the end I made a levelless classless system to give more freedom of choice and allow for incremental increases rather than level based ones (which I'm not that fond of). https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xdb ... edit?hl=en



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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:36 am

The "Level 6 Bonus" is an official rule from Set 2.
As is the increasing cost for advancing abilities (strenght, dex, con, mag, etc.) as shown in the second table "Improving Abilities".

While a class- AND level-less system might be the final goal, I will take this step by step.
And the first step would be to get rid of the classes.

If that is done nice and smooth, changing from advancement points to direct use of XP is not that big of a step anymore.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Lynata » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:39 am

In a way, if you want to stick to level requirements, you could simply use that level's XP value as a requirement - just to throw in a suggestion for later, once you get to a stage where you want to get rid of levels in addition to classes.

The only direct feedback for the linked document that comes to mind after a quick glance is that it seems as if ability points are still rolled randomly? Whilst this does make for more randomization and thus a certain degree of realism, the results may at times run contrary to a character concept or indeed a character's culture. Given that this system aims for a greater degree of freedom and customization, it may be worth considering a pointbuy approach.

Oh, and perhaps consider introducing additional requirements for specializations to ensure the end result stays closer to what they are meant to be. This may be common sense, but, for example, a Templar should not have Mage Training, instead maybe add a minimum Strength score to the existing requirements to ensure that a character going there is indeed a warrior (at least in spirit). The other specializations could use a similar approach.

Maybe even introduce other limitations such as certain talents excluding each other. Magic Training and Toughness could be mutually exclusive, for example, explained by an arcanist's life revolving around study instead of physical exercise. This way you could avoid "weird combinations" from the start whilst still preserving conceptual freedom where it makes sense.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:58 am

My document only considers class-aspects.
Which method used to generate starting abilities is of no concern.
But I strongly advice in using BOTH the "Buying abilities" and "Buying Background Benefits" rules from Set 2, page 26.

Since my players are all "of age" and quite reasonable, I saw no real need to put in specific selection rules.
As always, a GM has the last word and has to be consulted before taking a specialization.

With the normal talents, I see no real need. A warrior-mage can surely have Toughness and Mage Training.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Disemvowel » Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:45 pm

Can we get it on a non-scribd site? Anyone, please?
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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:07 pm

I'm sorry. I had no idea where to upload documents for free.
The board obviously doesn't allow file attachments, otherwise I had used it.

Is there something like imageshack?
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Lynata » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:50 pm

You could try Rapidshare. For unregistered users, it only allows about 20 downloads per file, but for the few instances where I had to provide downloads for documents instead of sending them via e-mail, this was more than sufficient. And there aren't that many users on this forum. Worst case, you can always re-upload.

Sorry to hear that scribd doesn't work for some - there's some good material hosted on that site. :-?
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Loswaith » Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:25 pm

You can set up Dropbox account too for hosting files and the like, I personaly find it invaluable for sharing my role-playing stuff.
You also only need it running on your computer when you personaly use it (though you can access via the web too), while the files you have made available are always avaialiable if they are currently uploaded.

Though it doesnt allow for the web viewing like scribed or google docs does, its free upload space.

If you want a referal, PM me with an email to send the referal too. It isnt needed to join but gives both parties of the referal extra space (about 250meg if I recall).
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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:00 pm

I really don't see how Dropbox would be any more helpful than Scribd.
Registering isn't a big deal and once done you can download the document as docx or pdf.
Sure, if someone knows a site where I can upload and download without registration, tell me.
I will gladly get it there.

BTW: New Version out.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Loswaith » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:17 pm

Having to register just to download doesn't suit everyone. Espeically if you have no reason to use scribd for anything else.

While only the person putting up documents has to be registered for dropbox. They simply add a link pointing to the required document and anyone that has access to the link can download it. No registration is needed at all for downloading.

Here is an example to my flavoured stunts document:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12864240/DragonAge/DA_FlavouredStunts_1.0.1.pdf
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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:31 pm

Okay, I didn't know that.
I thought I could only invide other DB users to my folders.
But I still can't get this working. I uploaded the doc but there is no URL that I can see.
Can someone please help?
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Loswaith » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:36 pm

You can invite other dropbox users to a folder but that gives them access to the entire folders contence, you can give any one access to the individual file through a direct link.

If you have it installed on your computer, make sure the file is in the drop box public folder (either way), then right click on it and there will be a drop box option on the menu (drop box has to be running to see it), on the sub menu there is a "copy public link" option which is the link to the document itself.

If going from the website, in the files tab, go to the folder (typically the public folder) the file is in, then at the end of the file listing (the right hand side) is an arrow that gives you a drop down list when you click on it, that you can select the "copy public link" option.

Then all you need to do is paste in that link in some URL/BBC tags, for direct access to the file.

Hope that helps :)
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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:07 pm

That did the trick!
Thank you very much.
The link in the first post is now dropbox-direct-link.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Loswaith » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:07 pm

Your welcome, glad I could help. :)
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Disemvowel » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:27 pm

Much obliged folks, thank you!
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Disemvowel » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:48 pm

Very interesting DD...I do like the idea of allowing players to mold their PCs ala carte. And since I have nearly 100 hours in Skyrim, it also feels like that as well. I will try to put together a game and report back.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:16 am

Just upped 0.9.7. Basicly just some minor layout/rephrasing stuff. But still...
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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:19 am

Version 0.9.8 is up.

One Major Change:

Stunt Bonus now costs 2 points.
Don't know why I missed this, but I seem to have miscalculated something.
With SB worth 2 points, the classes are now closer to each other in point-total.

In addition, all talents that give one stunt bonus at a certain degree, won't need an update.

So it's perfect.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:19 am

QUESTION TO EVERYONE:

Would you say a Talent is equivalent to an Ability Focus, or twice as good?

I always calculated with Talents as 2 points and Focuses as 1 point, but it would also work with Talents as 1 point.

I would really appreciate your feedback.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Loswaith » Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:29 am

I think talents are better than focuses though Im not sure if I'd say twice as good, but are better and should cost more than focuses, so 1 point focuses and 2 point talents work fine with that.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby DracoDruid » Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:04 am

0.9.9 up.

I removed the revised version of "Dual Weapon Style" since it wasn't a necessary revision (that is because of changed rules).

In addition, I added rules for a Background-Free creation too (found at the end).

Any comments?
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Re: Class-less System

Postby tarnishedarmour » Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:59 pm

I've been following this thread and your revisions for a while because I think it is a good idea for an alternate system. I've also been seeing that Rogue's Armor entry asking for ideas for a few revisions now too, and here are my three trains of thought on that:

1. Eliminate it, simply roll it in with Armor Training and ignore the difference (not optimal, but...)
-or-
2. Have Journeyman allow Light Chain and Master allow Heavy Chain, but never plate.
-or-
3. Have defense (not armor) actually increase in leather, eliminating the need for heavier armors.

My personal favorite is option 3 as I see a person with training in "Rogue's Armor" training to avoid blows instead of absorbing them. I would also add a prerequisite of Dex for Rogue's Armor as well.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Loswaith » Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:57 pm

A fourth option is to scrap the rogue armour and then add to Armour Training, at journeyman rank it negates the movement penalities for leather Armour. You could also have the Master rank halve (round up) or negate the movement penality of mail, though I tend to think master rank offers some benefit anyway so not realy needed.
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Re: Class-less System

Postby Hellebore » Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:10 pm

In my classless/leveless system I just amalgamated rogue's armour into the novice rank of armour training. It's a wierd exception that doesn't make much sense. Thus in the system I posted in my first post a rogue that wanted an armour advantage can take novice armour training. The balance is the fact that they'll need to put stats in Strength to be able to get journeyman, sacrificing some dex and sneaky talents to get better armour training.

In the end there really isn't any limitation except physical ones on a character's training. So long as this requires prereqs then you always have to give up something to get something else it should balance out.

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